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  1. #21
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Posted this over at OU.com so thought may as well get opinions here as well.

    *********

    Sorry if this has been covered before, but so many posts on this.

    Trying to get straight in my head the firing sequence here.

    We have two Hall sensors, one fires Coil Pair A and the other fire Coil Pair B.

    I take it the coils repulse the rotor magnets, so what are the best positions?


  2. #22
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Neptune over at OU.com pointed out the config is in attraction.
    So how about the following config


  3. #23
    Senior Member HydroControl's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Which direction for rotataion. If it is Clockwise then would "A" be in attract mode and then "B' would be in repulse more. Why not wire the two coils (A + B) together and use only one hall sensor ? With litz wire on coils A + B then wire half the Litz wire to fire the coils and use the other half of the wire to absorb some of the kick pulse. I see lots of fun things to try.

    Is this the wire I should be ordering : 8 Strands, 36 AWG, Ohms /ft = 51.85, Eqivalent gauge = 27 AWG

  4. #24
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Hi Hydro

    Here is the PDF attached with his posts from the forums.

    He states 7 x0.125 in here.

    Cheers

    Sean.

  5. #25
    Senior Member HydroControl's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Just a thought here while waiting for parts to arrive.
    The drive coils. They are made up of a ferrite core with liz wire. Now if you only use half the strands of the litz wire of a drive coil to actually drive the rotor what could you use the other half of the strands of litz wire of that same drive coil. It seems to me the drive coil with a ferrite core and multiple strands of wire is a really a TRANSFORMER. So if you drive 4 of the 7 strands with a sharp 12 volt pulse what comes out the other 3 strands if you rectify the output to a cap? Seems like you would attract the rotor magnet and recover most if not all your energy. Coupled with the magnet hitting it at the same time would it amplify the output.

    Also why is one hall sensor being feed from a short magnet stuck in the outer side of the rotor and the other sensor being feed from a actual rotor magnet ? hummmm.. One very short pulse and the other a long pulse.
    Last edited by HydroControl; 17-05-2011 at 12:32 PM. Reason: clarification

  6. #26
    Junior Member ron's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Interesting theory hydrocontrol, not up to scratch on coils and how the magnetic fields react. Hope you do lots of different sets of tests on your build as romerouk was saying it is not something that is seen as usual in physics so we have to look outside these rules to come up with the breakthrough. Just my two cents worth wish i had the talent and knowledge of these builds, hopefully you or clanzer do a replication with the same results as romerouk. that would be fantastic to see. Best of luck to you both, keep up the good work. ron

  7. #27
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Okay, back home for the weekend and lots of little parcels waiting for me




    2 sheets of 10mm thick 500mm x 500mm Acrylic for top and bottom stator plates.
    1 Sheet of 300mm x 300mm 12mm Polycarbonate for the Rotor.
    1 Rotor M10 mounting bolt with 6mm hole.
    1 length of 6mm bar for shaft, that will be cut and lathed down to fit bearings
    20mm washers
    20mm x 10mm rod magnets
    M4 threaded brass inserts
    M3 threaded brass inserts
    2 Pole connector block for each coil
    M8 threaded rod
    M8 Brass Nuts for threaded rod
    2 500g litz wire
    47000uf 25v Capacitor
    2mm Black and Red cable
    Ring Connectors.
    Tip42C Transistors
    DPDT switches for bottom coils. This will allow me to switch the configuration where needed.

    Only thing that did not arrive is the Hall Sensor, but maybe tomorrow.

    All other parts such as Rectifier's power supplies etc etc are here already




    Will double check measurements in my artwork tonight, create the toolpaths and get cutting tomorrow.


    Oh forgot the 3A DC converter that also arrived.



    Cheers

    Sean.

  8. #28
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Quote Originally Posted by HydroControl View Post
    Just a thought here while waiting for parts to arrive.
    The drive coils. They are made up of a ferrite core with liz wire. Now if you only use half the strands of the litz wire of a drive coil to actually drive the rotor what could you use the other half of the strands of litz wire of that same drive coil. It seems to me the drive coil with a ferrite core and multiple strands of wire is a really a TRANSFORMER. So if you drive 4 of the 7 strands with a sharp 12 volt pulse what comes out the other 3 strands if you rectify the output to a cap? Seems like you would attract the rotor magnet and recover most if not all your energy. Coupled with the magnet hitting it at the same time would it amplify the output.
    Never played with Litz wire but will be intereting to have a play and see how it pans out. Well after the failed replication hehe

    Also why is one hall sensor being feed from a short magnet stuck in the outer side of the rotor and the other sensor being feed from a actual rotor magnet ? hummmm.. One very short pulse and the other a long pulse.
    Yep was thinking about this, why not just use the top of the rotor magnets for the second trigger also.
    I have designed my rig templates , so we can swap around the hall sensor and find the best configuration, that gives us the optimun speed, but pulls the least current.
    Scope complete with current clamps will defo be pulled out for the fine tuning of this one, and are target only seems to be around 1300 RPM, child play
    Well unless the coils are really crap hehe

    Cheers

    Sean.

  9. #29
    Moderator DeepCut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Don't forget the coils on Muller's unit were conically wound, a good description is in this chapter from Patrick Kelly's book, it's on page 2-27 :

    http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter2.pdf
    Last edited by DeepCut; 20-05-2011 at 08:28 PM.
    Experience is a hard teacher. It gives the test first and the lesson afterward.

  10. #30
    Senior Member HydroControl's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    I think the reason for the two hall sensors is that the hall sensor for the small magnet fires on top dead center of the rotor for fast repel. Kinda like a kick out of a gate. The other sensor that triggers off the rotor magnet is a longer pulse to attract the approaching rotor magnet. Could be wrong but with your replication it looks like it got covered either way.

    Still waiting for wire. Bet I would have gotten it if I ordered from the UK.

  11. #31
    Moderator DeepCut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Experience is a hard teacher. It gives the test first and the lesson afterward.

  12. #32
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Well I started and finished the coils today.

    The wire that arrived was 7 x 0.250 and not 7 x 0.125

    But I wound them anyway and will just have to wind some new ones when the correct wire turns up.
    The rig is designed so the coils can be easly swapped out, so not a problem and be good to compare.

    Ended up doing 120 turns and each coil came out at 0.8ohms each.

    CNC machine is cutting out base plate as I type.




    Cheers

    Sean.

  13. #33
    Moderator DeepCut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Sean, dont know if you missed my post about the fact the original Muller coils were conically wound - read up the screen there's a link you're probably already aware of.
    Experience is a hard teacher. It gives the test first and the lesson afterward.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepCut View Post
    Sean, dont know if you missed my post about the fact the original Muller coils were conically wound - read up the screen there's a link you're probably already aware of.
    I looked through the PDF.. I still don't understand what conically wound means.. can you explain?

    Thanks!

  15. #35
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Quote Originally Posted by DeepCut View Post
    Sean, dont know if you missed my post about the fact the original Muller coils were conically wound - read up the screen there's a link you're probably already aware of.
    Hi Gary

    Yep, but this replication is based on Romero's take on the Muller. So trying to use the same parts as close as I can.

    But once the Base Rig is built, in the future their should be no problem trying other coils.

    Cheers

    Sean

  16. #36
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Bottom Stator plate eventually cutout, took a lot of hours and Top Stator plate on the machine now.

    Here is a picture of it cutout and M4/M3 threaded brass inserts press fitted.
    The channels are to run the wires in.




    Here is Coil side populated.
    Switches will swap polarity of coils.





    And Connection side with washers for the biasing magnets.





    Just got to run the wires now

    There is no way the top plate will be finished tonight, so will have to wait till next weekend.

    Cheers

    Sean.

  17. #37
    Administrator CLaNZeR's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Thought I would share this video that RomeroUK sent me before the Muller Replication.

    He managed to get motors to speed up before when applying a load, but the Muller Design enabled it to go to the next level and be self sustaining.



    Do not ask me too much on this setup, but it uses the same circuit and same feedback circuit for harvesting the output of the PU.
    The core in this pickup coil is MU-Metal.

    Cheers

    Sean

  18. #38
    Moderator DeepCut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Hi Neo, they were cone-shaped coils, but as sean says the first step is to replicate the apparently successful pseudo-replication before trying out the original design. If Romero had success with standard-wind coils then let's not make any more work for ourselves.
    Experience is a hard teacher. It gives the test first and the lesson afterward.

  19. #39
    Moderator DeepCut's Avatar
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    I forgot to ask Sean, are you in e-mail contact with him ? His youtube channel is closed.
    Experience is a hard teacher. It gives the test first and the lesson afterward.

  20. #40
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    Default Re: MULLER Generator free energy self runner at overunity.com romerouk has a self run

    Quote Originally Posted by CLaNZeR View Post

    The core in this pickup coil is MU-Metal.

    Cheers

    Sean
    One possible explanation can be that the MuMetal is dragging the rotor during open circuit (It attracts the magnets and slows the rotor down). When he shorts the coil, the current flowing in the coil sets up a magnetic field and this field saturates the MuMetal and it loses its attraction to a large extent. So the rotor speeds up. This will balance at some speed.

    MuMetal has very high permeability and small fields can easily saturate it and brings down its mu so that it behaves like air under magnetic field.

    Anyway , a very interesting way to speed up the rotor under load, but I have no idea how this can lead to self runner. Any guesses?

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